How is the Wilder family doing?

They're doing alright. They're good.

Paris is a young teenager already?

Yeah, Paris she's so grown up - it's unbelievable. She's kind of the same height as Hep and she looks like 15 year old where she's eleven. And Stan is kind of this big [show's height with his right hand] and full on [smiles], all the time - mad!

I have a little son as well!

Yeah? How old?

He will be five on Friday.

Oh, there you go - it's the same thing. You know what it's like [smiles]. Now I miss him [Stanley].

I read in an old interview that Paris learns the piano? Does she have any ambitions to become a musician as well?

She said recently she wants to act, she wants to be an actress. But she's quite along the piano. It's the only thing I really insist that she does. I mean we're very easy parents - we're just "YEAH! - do what you want."
But one thing I want her to do is to play. Because to me they are obviously musical - I can tell - they have it in them. So I want to encourage it. And I was made to play the piano so they can be made to play the piano too [laughs].

OK, let's start with your latest album SUBHUMAN. Was there any particular reason why you started with another album? Did you think that the time was right now to start another project?

Yeah, I mean I actually tried to start it a few times in the last few years. And everytime I went in the studio nothing really happened. So I just thought, well it's not the right time. And then really just sort of 18 months ago I just started again itchy fingers, I need to do something. And that's it really. It just felt like the right time to get back to work. And also Stan, we were talking about Stanley, he's now at an age where he's passed that very early development where I really wanted to sort of being around and try to be helpful. And now he's more grown up - it's kind of a bit more time again to concentrate on the music.

As I read in the pre-information of the album - I haven't heard it yet - it seems to be more conceptional again like the LIQUID album?

Kind of. But the thing is really - people place a lot of amphasis on concept - it's not really a concept album. It's just a ... at the end of it I have to think of a title. And I have to have a reason for the title. So I kind of try to just let the songs suggest an idea to me. And Joe's words - they tend to deal with, one of them is obviously an anti-war song. And they all deal with some kind of flaw in human nature. And so this idea how everyone can be regarded as 'subhuman' by somebody else, that just sort of came to me from his words. And I think it advises to some different things in life.
...so it's only a loose concept really. But you haven't heard the album yet - I heard this morning that it's already on the internet now.

Is it?

Yeah [smiles]. Someone's uploaded it, which is inevitable. It will happen and I'm prepared for that. But the actual promo copies haven't even gone out yet. So I don't know how they managed to get it.

There is a stream!

That happens, yeah...

...there's a stream - maybe it's recorded from the stream.

I don't know, because... what they do the watermarked CDs, the very first CDs they make for media have a watermark on. So you can't burn them. But there's a way [laughs].

But there's a digital stream for journalists. I know, Anne told me that they get a link to hear it. So maybe it's recorded from there.

And they are able to burn it from that? Ahh...

Bad quality!

Really? Is it awful?

I don't like MP3s. You can get 192 kBit MP3 to get a rough idea. But this stream is really, really low quality. And it's not some kind of normal pop music. It's some kind of RECOIL...

...in some ways it's better if it's low quality, because many people say "No, I don't wanna hear that". Or, if it was really good quality they may only ever listen to that. So if it's bad quality at least people will understand that they need to hear it properly as well. But it's still disappointing obviously but...

I will never listen to this stuff.

Yeah, exactly. The only, the true fans wanna hear it like that, true fans will say "No, I'll wait", so hopefully...

...the artists and you spend months...

...of course! I hate MP3 for the sound quality! But I think it's obviously the future of music purchase. So you have to make the sound ... we're going to do all the RECOIL catalogue is coming out on iTunes in higher quality MP3, the new one, DRM-free and 2..., I think it's 256 is it the quality? So that at least will sound better. I mean I don't know what they sound like, how good...

...not that good.

Not that good, no.

And what about the DVD audio and SACD?

...by the way, have you heard the last NINE INCH NAILS release?

No, I haven't heard that.

He startet touring in February this year, the album was released in April and he did some kind of joke, in terms of releasing some songs from the album by leaking it via USB-sticks which were stored on toiletts in venues where he played.

It was a strange campaign for this, yeah! [laughs]

He did WHAT with the toiletts? [puzzled]

Some songs from his album in 193 MP3s and put it on USB-Sticks and just left it at toiletts.

Where?

At the venues where he played.

And fans found it in a while?

Exactly like this! [laughs]

Weird! [laughs]

And Universal, his label was not amused...

...not happy. They're not amused. No, the problem is that all the record companies a very paranoid about what's happening, because record sales had just gone down. From my point of view, I think it's quite healthy and the digital music purchase. Even though despite the quality, because I don't have to compete anymore trying to get records into shops that won't stock RECOIL music. Whereas at least online everybody and most musicians are on an even playing field. Everbody's got the opportunity and everybody can find the music they want to find online. They can't find it in the shops. For a long time now I can't get CDs in the shops.

So this was an option you pushed for this album?

Well...

...I read about the problems with the distribution of LIQUID...

...yeah, exactly!

You were disappointed that...

...yeah, that's what I'm saying. At least now the whole way people buy music has changed since then and gives me a better opportunity. And so we're making everything available on iTunes very soon. All the albums will be bundled with extra tracks. All the remixes from the singles will be with the album. And then we're doing a feature on the Apple-Pro site and also on the iTunes site, that we can release a special feature and stuff. I think that should help things a bit.

Any unreleased mixes?

Unreleased mixes? Not. No, there aren't any, I don't have any more! [laughs]. I don't think so anyway, I can't remember [laughs again]. There was actually - I think I did reject one! Actually Flood did a mix of track DRIFTING years ago, which they didn't like very much. So that's around somewhere - I'll have to have another listen, to see if I like it now. It wasn't very good.

What do you think about releasing LIQUID as a Super Audio CD?

Yeah, I haven't thought about that really. I mean, I don't think it's something Mute would do. Not now. We'll have to remaster it and it's the costs. From a cost point of view they would say no to that.

There won't be any 5.1 mix for UNSOUND METHODS and LIQUID?

I mean, maybe one day I can do it. But there is a cost factor to actually getting it done. I mean, actually trying to master this album was a much longer experience than I thought it would be. Because getting into surround sound, and the guy who did it, Simon Heyworth, he did all the DEPECHE MODE stuff, he's a real trainspotter. So, he doesn't do things quickly and I don't do things quickly. So we spent days and days and he sent me a rough CD and then we sent it back trying something ... so it took a bit longer but it was an interesting exercise. And just doing surround sound was so new for me anyway - first time I've done it really, so it takes a little 'try and error' - quite a lot of experimenting just to get it right.

So you have to think about all the sounds where to put them...

...yeah ... I mean...

...do you have to 'rethink' the album...

...a little bit. I mean it wasn't so difficult to actually decide where things should go. But just to know what kind of balance you need to have for your, you like, sub-base for example. It's really difficult to know - and there's no real template for surround sound. Everybody who does it, does it in a different way. And also, if you try to take in to how people listen to it, much people put the centre speaker through their TV set. And the back speakers would be tiny, their front speakers are their main speakers. So you have just kind of think of all those things. I mean in the end we didn't put much in the middle speaker for that reason. You put too much there and people listen to it through their TV, then it's no much point. So all those things you had to kind of just learn about this.

Did you get any hints during the 5.1 remasters for the DEPECHE MODE back catalogue? How big was your role there?

I was only just really ... I didn't think the DEPECHE MODE ones were very radical. They're OK. But because they're so based on the original mixes, that even in 5.1 - yes it's a bit clearer, but it's still very much the original mix. And I wanted to do something a bit more than that with my one. Although it is still very much based on the stereo mix. It's not a radically different version. But what happened was when we did the 5.1, that's what gave me an idea to do a more radical version, which is why we ended up with this 'Ambient Version' as well. Which is a stereo mix but it was based on what we were putting in the back speakers of the 5.1 mix. So when we listened to just those back speakers, when we were mastering, we just listened to the back speakers to check them. And both PK and I said "Wow, that sounds really good!". Just reverbs and atmospheres and so I thought well I'm gonna do a whole version of the album like that. So the 'Ambient Version' has minimal drums, all the rockier stuff is gone - cause you haven't heard it yet so - I'm forgetting you haven't heard it...
But basically there's quite a lot performance on the album from Joe's, Joe Richardson's bass player and drummer and stuff. And a lot of that gets taken away - and you're left with the more kind of electronic, atmospheric stuff that I do. So there is less of his band in the 'Ambient Version'.

Everybody was speaking "What can this be this 'Ambient Version'?" Nobody had a clue. What will it be? How did you get the sounds for the current album? Because for LIQUID you had a couple of musicians including Dean Garcia jamming.

It's a similar approach this time to LIQUID. Probably this time even more performance based and less pure electronics. But it still has a kind of the typical RECOIL trade mark sound if you like. Where there's lots of layering and you discover new things each time you listen. So initially it might sound like a live band but then the more you listen the more you realise lots of other things in there. So it's quite a dense sound. And it's quite a lot of performance from Joe, he plays a lot of guitars well and live drums, but then that all goes into pro-tools and all gets chopped up and restructured like I always do really. So that it doesn't in the end sound just like a live band playing. It kind of does but when you analyse it you actually know it's a bit more than that. So did want to ... is this very strong blues flavor to everything. But I didn't want to make an album that just sounds like a pastiche blues record. So you'll happy all to hear it soon.

I hope so! How did you find the contributors Carla and Joe? How did you get aware of them?

Well, Joe was on the internet. I just did a search.

Did you 'google' him?

Yeah. He was 'googled' [funny sarcastic undertone]. And he came up almost straight away. He was one of the first people that come up - his name. If you put 'blues singer songwriter' into Google, he comes up. So that was really easy actually and he looks quite scary, his photographs. And I wasn't sure whether to write to him. I thought shall I send this email or not? But I did and he was really enthusiastic about it, so it worked out really well.

But it was something he never did before, this direction?

You mean musically?

Yeah.

Well, I mean, you have to think about tracks like JEZEBEL, STRANGE HOURS and that's more the direction to this whole album goes in. And so, musically it's a bit similar to some of the things I've done before. But as I say it's kind of a modern approach to blues music.

All the lyrics were written by...

...yeah, he writes lyrics for his songs. And the two tracks from Carla they don't have a lot of words. There are a few words but a lot of the sounds just sound - her voice just sound. It's a bit like Elizabeth Fraser. Or something like from her from COCTEAU. She has her own kind of language - it sounds a little bit like that. So it's very kind of ... it's very different to Joe. This is what I wanted. Because he has such a strong character - I needed something to be very different to him, to break it up. And she was more difficult to find. I looked around for a long time to try and find a girl singer. It wasn't easy. I did the same thing I searched on the net but I couldn't find any. I listened to hundreds of girls and I didn't like any.
And actually she was suggested by someone at Mute in the end.

I have listened to the little clip of PREY and I 'googled' him too and I was really surprised because he wasn't black. He sounds so black...

...that's true, yeah. He does sound right.

Grey hair...

...yeah, yeah. The picture doesn't fit the voice.

I was surprised. I thought it must be some guy with the same name.

Well that's it. That's the man [smiles].

Did you have any other singers in mind but it didn't work for some reason - they had no time or...

...other singers? No! No. I did think about Elizabeth Fraser but she was on the road with MASSIVE ATTACK I think at the time and very busy. So I kind of looked into that a little but I didn't really go very far for that. But that's it really. In a way I prefer to work with people that are unkown anyway. I think it's more interesting to just see you can discover - it's not that I want to 'discover' someone - but you know what I mean? I think people that haven't necessarily been there have more enthusiasm, are more open-minded to trying different things. So, I don't want someone who's jaded. So I was quite pleased in a way to find someone else who's not well known.

Can you tell us something about the artwork? Because it was very, very surprising for many RECOIL fans including myself. In the first moment everybody thought this is a fake sleeve...

...yeah...

...because it looks completely different to all the previous sleeves.

That's mainly the reason why - because I wanted it to look different to the previous. We did ask Intro to come up with an idea. And they did something that looked exactly like the previous albums. And I thought well... - but they're also a very expensive company! They really cost a lot of money!

But they do good jobs...

...they do good jobs! But, you know, I thought it would be a good idea just to try ... I think the album sounds a bit different, so let's have some different artwork as well. And I liked what he came up with, the guy that designed it Jesse Holborn and his idea of using mannequins to represent kind of workers, humans, you know, to go with the idea of SUBHUMAN. And I just liked it, you know.

Is there any meaning in the E-Type plate?

Not really. I mean when you see all the artwork you realise that ... what you see is there's sort of models, mannequins in many, many different situations and real life situations. So you see one of them at the sink washing up and you see one somewhere else in bed. But they're really sort of ... they're in normal life situations. Almost kind of mundane and the idea is that the people are kind of recyclable. The car is just one of many images - there are lots of different images. And the DVD has a slightly different cover as well.

So the formats will be a CD...

...CD. And then a double pack with CD and the DVD.

Because there was an info coming up that the CD is an enhanced CD of the DVD package.

That's the SACD?

Yeah. On the DVD you have a stereo in a better quality - so higher rate 48 or 96k and 24 Bit. And the same with the 'Ambient Version', same format and then the 5.1.

But the enhanced CD then - the one in the double pack...

... it's just - the double pack has the standard normal 16 Bit CD. And then DVD that also has the stereo mix in a better quality and the 5.1 and the 'Ambient' and the videos - and that's the whole pack.

But it's DTS then.

DTS...

...OK...

...I'm not sure, I don't think it's SACD there. It's not Super Audio. It's just DTS and Dolby - what is it? [laughs] I'm not even sure anymore! [laughs again] It gets really confusing actually, because when they do the authoring for the DVD there are so many different things. I didn't even know about it before.

And vinyl!

And vinyl of course, yeah! Which is great. And should be good quality vinyl, double album. I haven't heard the vinyl yet. I think they sent me a test pressing but I haven't seen it.

How is your relationship with Mute right now after all the problems that you had 7 years ago?

Well, it seems to be good. Mute have been very good recently in agreeing to all the formats and trying to be as helpful as possible. But I think most record companies are very worried about music download and record sales which are just falling and falling. And Mute as a company have cut back, so made some people redundant, got rid of some staff, moved building into a smaller building - so it's all a bit worring since EMI...

...there seems to be a lot of preasure from EMI in terms of sales...

...yeah, that's the problem. I think they generally don't know exactly what to do about it, what's the best to do about it.

I'm afraid time's over. Did you get everything?

Yeah, we had a good chat.